September 01, 2008
SOMETHING THERE IS THAT DOESN'T LOVE A WALL
Steve H Graham at Hog On Ice lapses Democratic over what he perceives to be a less-than-adequate flood wall in New Orleans.
Not saving lives, since everyone was evacuated, but reducing damage to property. Sure we can do better. How much better, and at what cost? Somebody somewhere had to calculate the ROI of the cost of the wall against the cost and likelihood of property damage & lost economic activity. Looks like they chose to pay for a wall that works fine for all but the worst cases.
And as {a commenter on the site} notes, the local authorities probably spent some of the wall money on other things, trading height & width for hookers & heroin.
NOLA is criscrossed with elevated highways [JBD - point being - they know how to do it, and chose not to, in the case of the wall.]. Same ROI calculation each time they build one - what is our return on the cost of doing this, vs. leaving it as it is, or choosing some cheaper half-measure, like a drawbridge, that could get damaged every 20-40 years by a Katrina.
Same decision every bridge/levee builder makes every time they build one. Only time can tell if they were right. And even if the bridge or wall fails, was the cause of failure bad design (Minneapolis) or simply an Act of God (Katrina).
My opinion: if an area floods at any time, essential structures should not be located there. If private citizens or companies undertake the risk to build there and subsequently lose everything, the taxpayer should not be forced to cover the loss.
This is how the Sepulveda Dam basin is handled in LA - it floods out once every couple of years, but the rest of the time it's a park. All they have to replace are the ball diamonds and other lightweight infrastructure.
The Army Corps Of Engineers has been trying to steer the major rivers since 1936, and still we get huge damaging floods nearly every year. It's a futile waste of money.
Steve took issue with my comment:
My reply:
Comments are disabled.
Post is locked.
"We're talking about a few miles of wall, to save lives. Am I wrong? Is there some reason why we can't do better?"
Not saving lives, since everyone was evacuated, but reducing damage to property. Sure we can do better. How much better, and at what cost? Somebody somewhere had to calculate the ROI of the cost of the wall against the cost and likelihood of property damage & lost economic activity. Looks like they chose to pay for a wall that works fine for all but the worst cases.
And as {a commenter on the site} notes, the local authorities probably spent some of the wall money on other things, trading height & width for hookers & heroin.
"Here in Miami, we have dozens of miles of elevated highway. That took much more material and effort than a decent levee. If we can build expressways, why can't we build levees we know will work?"
NOLA is criscrossed with elevated highways [JBD - point being - they know how to do it, and chose not to, in the case of the wall.]. Same ROI calculation each time they build one - what is our return on the cost of doing this, vs. leaving it as it is, or choosing some cheaper half-measure, like a drawbridge, that could get damaged every 20-40 years by a Katrina.
Same decision every bridge/levee builder makes every time they build one. Only time can tell if they were right. And even if the bridge or wall fails, was the cause of failure bad design (Minneapolis) or simply an Act of God (Katrina).
My opinion: if an area floods at any time, essential structures should not be located there. If private citizens or companies undertake the risk to build there and subsequently lose everything, the taxpayer should not be forced to cover the loss.
This is how the Sepulveda Dam basin is handled in LA - it floods out once every couple of years, but the rest of the time it's a park. All they have to replace are the ball diamonds and other lightweight infrastructure.
The Army Corps Of Engineers has been trying to steer the major rivers since 1936, and still we get huge damaging floods nearly every year. It's a futile waste of money.
Steve took issue with my comment:
"Looks like they chose to pay for a wall that works fine for all but the worst cases. "
That's not really right. This was a fairly weak storm about 70 miles away. It wasn't even close to a worst case. The winds were not hurricane-force. A Category 1, right beside New Orleans, could have been much, much worse.
Also, the wall I'm talking about is scheduled to be improved, so it's clear officials realize it's inadequate. The obvious question is, why is such a small and vital project uncompleted after three years?
It doesn't make sense to call Katrina's flooding an act of God. It was the result of inept planning. It was preventable. It was a known hazard. They expected a storm like Katrina.
It's an act of God if baseball-sized hail hits your house; if your house has no roof, and you get a concussion, the fault is yours.
That's not really right. This was a fairly weak storm about 70 miles away. It wasn't even close to a worst case. The winds were not hurricane-force. A Category 1, right beside New Orleans, could have been much, much worse.
Also, the wall I'm talking about is scheduled to be improved, so it's clear officials realize it's inadequate. The obvious question is, why is such a small and vital project uncompleted after three years?
It doesn't make sense to call Katrina's flooding an act of God. It was the result of inept planning. It was preventable. It was a known hazard. They expected a storm like Katrina.
It's an act of God if baseball-sized hail hits your house; if your house has no roof, and you get a concussion, the fault is yours.
My reply:
OK, so change the questions and I'll change the answers.
How many hurricanes have hit NOLA in the last 100 years? Looks like 6 had at least some effect on NOLA.
One of the reasons Katrina hurt so bad was that it had been so long since the last serous hit (regardless of what they call the drinks at Pat O'Brien's, and regardless of repeated government warnings) many people did not take the possibility seriously, and put more assets in harm's way. So to those who placed the assets and built the wall, Katrina was unexpected. Just like we don't "expect" earthquakes in So Cal, but we keep living here and building here, knowing that no matter how ruggedized we make our infratsructure, or how otherwise prepared we think we are, sooner or later "the big one" will humble us all.
Based on known data, worst case has to include any hurricane anywhere near NOLA and this wall, because hurricanes so rarely hit the city hard enough to hurt. So the wall is perfectly adequate in all but worst cases.
The assets protected by the wall are below sea level. The only reason they are there is because the cumulative benefit of being there outweighs the cost of possible loss. The alternative is to move the assets to higher ground, or build a storm-resistant platform for them. Risk/return.
How long was the wall there and doing its job? How much improving will they do, at what cost? Double thick, 3 feet higher? Triple thick, 5 foot higher? Just big enough to prevent damage from another Katrina, but no bigger? What if a Cat 5 hits after the wall is upgraded, and it fails?
Why is it uncompleted after 3 years? Without actually knowing, we can suppose that it is a) not as vital as other priorities, and b) not as small a job as you indicate.
Of course the flooding was predictable - the city is below sea level. Not calling Katrina an Act of God but ginning up a house with no roof analogy to support your thinking is plain silly. What if the hail comes through a skylight or window? That's what happened to my Nebraska relatives. The house had been there 70 years with no hail or tornado damage ever, but by your reasoning they are irresponsible boobs.
How many hurricanes have hit NOLA in the last 100 years? Looks like 6 had at least some effect on NOLA.
One of the reasons Katrina hurt so bad was that it had been so long since the last serous hit (regardless of what they call the drinks at Pat O'Brien's, and regardless of repeated government warnings) many people did not take the possibility seriously, and put more assets in harm's way. So to those who placed the assets and built the wall, Katrina was unexpected. Just like we don't "expect" earthquakes in So Cal, but we keep living here and building here, knowing that no matter how ruggedized we make our infratsructure, or how otherwise prepared we think we are, sooner or later "the big one" will humble us all.
Based on known data, worst case has to include any hurricane anywhere near NOLA and this wall, because hurricanes so rarely hit the city hard enough to hurt. So the wall is perfectly adequate in all but worst cases.
The assets protected by the wall are below sea level. The only reason they are there is because the cumulative benefit of being there outweighs the cost of possible loss. The alternative is to move the assets to higher ground, or build a storm-resistant platform for them. Risk/return.
How long was the wall there and doing its job? How much improving will they do, at what cost? Double thick, 3 feet higher? Triple thick, 5 foot higher? Just big enough to prevent damage from another Katrina, but no bigger? What if a Cat 5 hits after the wall is upgraded, and it fails?
Why is it uncompleted after 3 years? Without actually knowing, we can suppose that it is a) not as vital as other priorities, and b) not as small a job as you indicate.
Of course the flooding was predictable - the city is below sea level. Not calling Katrina an Act of God but ginning up a house with no roof analogy to support your thinking is plain silly. What if the hail comes through a skylight or window? That's what happened to my Nebraska relatives. The house had been there 70 years with no hail or tornado damage ever, but by your reasoning they are irresponsible boobs.
Posted by: JBD at
04:36 PM
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